Listen in the Podli app 🎧
Follow your favourite podcasts, listen offline and in the car with CarPlay and Android Auto, and always pick up where you left off. Free to try.
Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing.
Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is novelist and essayist Emily J. Smith, author of the debut novel
Nothing Serious. After years of writing, rewriting, and more than 100 agent rejections across two novels, Emily finally found the agent who understood her vision—and sold her debut to a Big Five publisher within weeks.
In this episode, Emily pulls back the curtain on her long road to publication, including why she abandoned her first novel, what she learned from agent feedback, and how embracing plot and suspense helped her break into publishing without sacrificing her literary ambitions. We get into working with a developmental editor, landing a Big Five deal, advances and rights, the emotional minefield of cover design, and what publishers actually do—and don’t do—for debut authors. Emily also shares the realities of funding your own book tour and publicity, building a platform when you hate social media, growing her Substack, and the personalized outreach that helped generate press and word of mouth.
Plus, Emily reflects on the widening gap between blockbuster books and smaller deals, why getting a traditional book deal can feel more like a foot in the door than a guarantee of support, and the publishing lesson she wishes she’d learned sooner.
Subscribe to Emily's Substack
Unresolving. Follow her on
Instagram @emjsmith, and buy your copy of
Nothing Serious on
Bookshop.org,
Amazon, or wherever books are sold!
Get your copy of Courtney's debut memoir Girl Gone Wild from Bookshop.org or Amazon.The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on
Instagram @courtneykocak and
Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website
courtneykocak.com.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming classes you might be interested in:
