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The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

CBT-I: The First-Line Treatment for Chronic Insomnia with Dr. Donn Posner (Part 2 of 2)

The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast · Aug 31, 2026 · 32:23

0:0032:23

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Dr. Donn Posner is a leading expert in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-I), founder and president of Sleepwell Consultants, and an adjunct clinical associate professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine. He is co-author of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia: A Session-by-Session Guide, and he has trained and consulted with clinicians nationally and internationally across nearly four decades of clinical practice. 

In this second of two episodes, the conversation turns from what CBT-I is to how clinicians actually learn and deliver it. Dr. Posner reviews the available training pathways and what proficiency really requires, and explains why sleep hygiene — the advice most patients have already heard many times over — does not treat chronic insomnia, even though it has a place later in the work. He identifies the high-yield principles any clinician can apply immediately, including a fixed morning wake time, early light exposure, and getting out of bed when not sleeping. He then examines sleep effort as a perpetuating factor and CBT-I as fundamentally a therapy of acceptance, describing how he prepares patients for a treatment that will make them feel worse before it makes them better, and how cognitive work addresses the fear and resistance that follow. He closes with what clinicians should expect from a course of treatment — typical length and spacing, responder and remitter outcomes, and the durability of gains — along with how he handles sleep medication and why guidelines place CBT-I ahead of hypnotics.

Learning Objectives

After completing this educational activity, participants should be able to:

Topics Covered in This Interview

Episodes: The Carlat Psychiatry Podcast

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